Envisioning the Future of Sustainable Housing with Antony DiMase

Ever wondered how architectural design could shape our future? Imagine a world where houses aren't just commodities, but sustainable spaces that nourish our lives and the planet. 

Join us as we explore this potential world with our guest Antony DiMase, of DiMase Architects.  Antony champions the belief that good design has the power to enhance our lives and environment, and he delves into the essence of sustainable architecture in this episode - highlighting the importance of small footprint buildings suffused with natural light, good ventilation, and adaptable spaces. 

Did you know that even as a renter, there are ways to make your home more energy-efficient? Antony shares some nifty tips on how to keep your house warm and minimise drafts. We also discuss the importance of regular maintenance in ensuring the longevity of a building. 

We also dive deeper into more complex solutions to reduce carbon emissions and create sustainable housing, discussing everything from green loans and subsidies to the potential of creating a logbook system to track energy efficiency progress in dwellings.

 Join us to envision the future of sustainable housing with Antony DiMase, where every home could be a sanctuary that complements our planet.

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Transcript

Ludwina Dautovic: 0:01

Welcome to the Rimm Exchange podcast helping you rent better. In this podcast, we're having conversations with industry leaders in the rental market, along with everyday renters, sharing fascinating stories, insights and tips to help you rent better. Welcome to the Rimm Exchange podcast. I'm Ludwena Dordovic and today I'm speaking with Antony Demase from Demase Architects. Antony advocates the sustainability, public urban space, better education and supporting local community. He believes that good design can make a difference in people's lives and contribute to a better environment. For many years, he and his team have provided architectural services to residential, education and commercial clients. He regularly attends professional development courses and is active on various social media platforms. Thank you, antony, for joining us today.

Antony Dimase: 1:02

Thank you, Ludwena. It's a pleasure to be here.

Ludwina Dautovic: 1:04

I'm really excited to talk to you today because the Rimm Exchange has actually just won the Australian PropTech Award for Environmental, Social and Sustainability category. I'm so excited about it.

Antony Dimase: 1:16

Congratulations. It sounds like it's well deserved, so well done to you.

Ludwina Dautovic: 1:20

Yeah, thank you so much. So there's a lot that's going into this conversation today, with that in the back of my mind as well, because obviously the Rimm Exchange is all about sustainability as well, because we're utilising resources that already exist. So, for those that are listening, you're wondering why we're actually talking about this topic today. Because we need to really be focusing I think in the future more so in sustainability when it comes to housing. So, to get started, antony, why don't you tell us where your passion for design sustainability came from?

Antony Dimase: 1:50

Well to say where it came from. I think the issue is that good architecture and sustainability go hand in hand. I think historically we can paint a picture, we can draw on the really good architects, the famous buildings, historically, that always have a connection with nature, with the environment and people. So sustainability and architecture go hand in hand. Probably only more recently that we've strayed from that where we've developed a sort of an architecture perhaps that doesn't put people first, doesn't really care for the environment. So it's not so much where it came from. I think it's always been there and, as an architect, the training, really, if you undertake the training and the education properly, that sustainability is just really embedded in the work that we do. So I'm passionate about it because obviously we're facing some challenges in the future and I believe that by going back to the very heart and soul of what architecture represents, what good architecture represents, we create sustainable buildings, sustainable spaces, healthy spaces and, apart from anything, it's the right thing for us to do right here, right now.

Ludwina Dautovic: 2:55

Yeah, I agree with you on that. I was thinking yesterday that if you look at the architecture of old, apart from the fact of how well it was built, it was also built to be beautiful, like buildings used to be beautiful. And you look around sort of suburban streets now and it feels to me like we've built a bunch of boxes that have just got some slight alterations on the outside so that one house can be differentiated from the next, but really there's no beautiful design to them like they used to have.

Antony Dimase: 3:25

Yeah, I mean in simple terms. A well-designed building lasts a long time. It can last centuries. It can last for an incredible amount of time. So the notion that if we want to create a sustainable building is actually we build well, we build small footprint buildings, natural light, good ventilation, spaces that can be adaptable for a multitude of uses. So it's not sort of designed for the here and now but can be adapted for future uses. Historically, I think we've been able to do that, not always, I mean. I think we can sort of paint a picture that you know everything was great in the past. That's not always the way, but it does provide some really valuable lessons about what sustainable architecture actually looks like. If you look at a terrace house, you look at a well-designed building. Generally speaking, it's able to be adapted to different situations and different conditions so that people can inhabit those spaces for much longer and really, at its very core, it's a sustainable approach to architecture.

Ludwina Dautovic: 4:27

Let's talk about current housing design limitations. How did we get here, like, how did that shift happen from what was designed, what well-designed in the past to what we have today?

Antony Dimase: 4:41

Well, we could spend a long time talking about this. Essentially, housing was served a need, you know, and historically I mean, it was a form of shelter, of the warm place where we could hunker down, stay warm, had a sense of community. Increasingly today we see housing as a kind of an investment. We also see we tend to think about the technology, the add-ons, the desirable aspects that we want to put into our houses. So we've sort of shifted away from the basic idea that housing provides us with shelter, comfort and community to something more like that. It is an investment that we're worried about, the home theater we want to have all the latest and greatest technologies, the best cooking equipment, you know, the most up-to-date fridge. So we've kind of moved away from what is essentially housing to something more like a consumable object.

Antony Dimase: 5:36

I sometimes joke that houses are kind of things that get plugged into the internet now rather than actually providing us with, you know, something that we can actually live in. So in a way, the building, the actual fabric of the building, has become less important and the features that that building contains, you know, be it. You know, the fancy kitchen, the stone benchtops, and those things become more important than the roof, the walls, the windows, the back garden and those sorts of things. So we've moved more from, you know, housing, providing us with a need, and it's more connected with you know, it being a status symbol, like a car we drive and a bit like how much can we resell this house or this investment at some future date. So it's really it's a change that parallels what changes have occurred in society really.

Ludwina Dautovic: 6:31

So it sounds like housing has become the bank, in a way. When you're talking about it as an investment, we're making decisions based on not how feasible, sustainable or suitable the house is. What's the resale value of it going to be?

Antony Dimase: 6:45

I believe that's the case particularly here in Australia. The house prices, as you probably know, have become extraordinarily high, so it's very difficult for young people, for a whole lot of people, to actually enter into the market, because we're effectively investing a large amount of our capital into housing with the view that it is a safe bet. It may well be, but it's become out of reach for a whole generation of people and that's problematic. So just the amount of money that people are spending on housing is quite incredible. The size of housing is much greater than what we need. Here in Australia we are building houses that per person, much bigger than anywhere in the world that includes the United States. So we are obsessed with the amount of space that we have and the amount of things that that space contains.

Ludwina Dautovic: 7:35

With that space actually comes the cost of running it. One of the things I often joke about with my husband is that people go out and make decisions about buying a car based on what the running costs are going to be of the car as well as the function of that car. We don't seem to do that when it comes to houses. We build or we buy or we move into houses based on the society and the space, but we don't really think about the cost of running that house.

Antony Dimase: 8:02

Well, there are good reasons for that. That's primarily that, basically, energy was very cheap. To run a gas heater, to run a cooling system, a reverse cycle air conditioning system, was actually very inexpensive because the cost of energy was actually very low. That's now changing and houses have become bigger and people's expectations about comfort have become much more acute. So in fact, energy costs are rising and the cost of running a house is becoming much greater. So it is actually becoming a consideration in people's thinking. But historically the reason that wasn't the case is that we were basically had cheap energy available to us in here in Australia. That actually tells us why the houses are designed the way they are. They're big houses because it was relatively easy to keep them warm and cool.

Ludwina Dautovic: 8:53

I understand that Even in the design of the design, elements go into building houses that one that I live in, for example. So we rent buses, we rent the house that we own in Newport and we rent the house that we live in in the Outer Worcestershire suburbs of Melbourne. These houses probably only about 10 years old, but it's a huge double story house and it has one remote unit for the entire heating and evaporative cooling. So if we're in one room to heat that room with that system, we have to be heating the entire house. Now I don't know on what planet anything like that could get passed.

Antony Dimase: 9:34

Well, it's a curious thing. I mean, you're talking about the design of your specific house. Yes, it would be better if you could individually heat and cool rooms. There is an inefficiency to that as well, unfortunately, because, the truth be known, the larger the unit, the more efficient it actually is. Comparably. So, if you had one large unit let's say, one large unit heating a whole house versus a whole lot of individual units heating individual rooms well, the large unit would be more efficient than the individual rooms. However, to your point, if you only need to heat and cool one room, obviously it would be better to have a unit that only heats and cools that one room. That would obviously be more effective.

Antony Dimase: 10:22

And this is really where design comes into it. You have to kind of think through the design aspects of a house in order to get to that kind of level of efficiency that you're talking about, and that's not easy, let me tell you. It's not easy because you're trying to design something for all situations. What I would suggest to you is something that I'm really passionate about is that design actually can make a real difference. So if you're designing a house with good insulation, good cross ventilation, you're not designing a house that's too big for what it needs to be and you've got good landscaping in and around the building. The need for heating and cooling it's much reduced, and that's the thing that we really need to be looking at the passive heating and cooling of dwellings. Increasingly, we're going to have more severe weather. You know heat and cold, so we need to rely more and more on natural systems in order to be able to heat and cool our properties.

Antony Dimase: 11:20

So, I'd really advocate for all your listeners how important good design is in relation to buildings. If you're living sorry, I'll just if I may if you're living on an existing building and you can't make those changes, then maintenance is a really important thing Ceiling windows, making sure that the insulation is up to date, having double glazing, making sure that there are no gaps so that all that heating and cooling is not escaping. So these are the sorts of things that every one of us can be doing.

Ludwina Dautovic: 11:53

And if you own the home, there are things that obviously people can do. A lot of our listeners are renters and they're living in homes that have been obviously designed. They can't do much about it. There's a few things that we've done around our house and then I'd like you to share some just some tips before we move on. We've actually closed off our ducted evaporative cooling vents with a piece of board cut to size and it just sits in that, so that's helped. We've put bubble wrap actually on our bottom part of our windows, just sprayed the window with some water and then put the bubble wrap side attached to the glass, and that actually helps to keep the cold out in the morning, and also putting those strips underneath doors where the drafts come in. So those three things that we've done are quite simple that we're able to do in a rental property. Are there any other tips that you'd recommend that people do a renting for Bubbubble to do at the moment?

Antony Dimase: 12:44

Look, I think you've almost nailed it, but I think window furnishings are underestimated as to the effect that it can actually have.

Antony Dimase: 12:50

So having a good blind and curtain system actually can keep a lot of the heat in. I would advocate, like I would love to see the laws change. To be honest with you, this is going a little bit away from what you're asking and I apologize, but I really believe landlords have an obligation to provide good systems to renters. I think this is an area of the market that is really lacking. So if I were renting, I'm fortunate enough to be living in my own home, but I would be saying to tenants to be really advocating to their landlords that maintenance is absolutely necessary. I've been sent to some rental accommodation which are really really not very good, and I believe landlords have an obligation to provide a minimum standard of accommodation to their tenants and this is not happening at the moment and I would like to see more advocacy and activism in this area because I do believe they have a responsibility. So I'm sorry I moved away a little bit from the question.

Ludwina Dautovic: 13:47

No, I'm actually glad to do that, I'm really glad you brought that up because, as a landlord myself and a renter, so I understand both sides of the equation. And look, I just got an email from my electricity supplier saying that to expect an additional $500 increase in the next 12 months in our electricity bill, and you know, that's actually quite a jump. We can manage that, fortunately, but a lot of people are not going to be able to and I think, thinking of doing which perhaps some of our business can do as well as it's going to negotiate with our landlord and just say look, you know, if we were to put an additional unit downstairs, this is what it would cost. We pay for half of it. Would you be happy to match that and that perhaps paying half of it would reduce our you know running costs over the next 12 months, which we will then benefit the following year.

Ludwina Dautovic: 14:33

You know, I think being able to negotiate with them on things that they can do would be helpful, because obviously the cost of running the house is causing people to be reluctant on what they rent, but at the same token, we're in the midst of a rental crisis, so it's almost like you can't be too fussy, in a way. So I think there are some things that you can do. That's probably probably good to do an episode topic on that down the road, but I'm sorry Gone.

Antony Dimase: 14:54

Oh well, I was just going to say. If you think about a building, any building, essentially a certain proportion of money has to be dedicated to the maintenance of that building. You know the paintings. Let's say, every 10, 15 years. Carpets probably need to be replaced every seven or eight years. You know the hot water service probably needs to be replaced, you know, let's say every 10 years.

Antony Dimase: 15:16

So in any sort of life cycle that occurs, you know, for a building, there is maintenance that has to be had for that building. That has to be done, otherwise that building will slowly deteriorate and there'll be a point at which it will be actually more costly to repair that building than it is to replace. The building sort of ends up becoming virtually derelict. So if we assume that a certain portion of money has to be invested in that building every year, it makes sense to me that landowners or owners Really think about where that money goes and rather than sort of putting in sort of additional features here and everywhere, I would contend that it would be makes much more sense to be looking at ways of making that building more energy efficient and healthier, because then that building is going to last for a lot longer. And I think that's the trend that we'll start to see over the next five years as we start to move towards a net zero carbon economy, because increasingly we know that that's where we've got ahead.

Ludwina Dautovic: 16:21

That's actually a really good segue where I was heading next. So what, in your opinion, must we be doing to start reducing our carbon emissions in our homes to get to that net years by 2050?

Antony Dimase: 16:32

Well, it's pretty easy. It's really about reducing the amount of energy that we use. So we need to be making our houses much more efficient. Now, most houses that we visit let's call it one or two star rating, so they're fairly leaky, they're poorly insulated and they use a lot of energy to consume. So really easy way is look at the energy bill and think about ways in which we can reduce that energy consumption and insulation, reducing the gaps, all those things that we talked about earlier other way in which we go about it. Once you do that, then you can start to think about active systems like solar panels, rainwater, getting off gas, doing all those sorts of things.

Antony Dimase: 17:13

If you are getting your energy from an energy provider, by all means go with a green energy provider rather than a fossil fuel system. Also, get good landscaping around the building, because that will actually make the house much more efficient and also a much more pleasant place to live in. So just quickly, there are really three reasons why we should make our houses more sustainable. The first is that all reduce energy costs. That's really really critical. So it doesn't matter whether you believe in climate change or you don't.

Antony Dimase: 17:43

Making the house more efficient is just a good idea because it reduces energy costs. Second thing is that it actually creates a more healthy space for you to live in. So, generally speaking, sustainable houses have much better fresh air, natural light, connection with nature, so you get the benefit of a healthy lifestyle within those spaces. And the third thing is that it's really the right thing to do. It's the right thing that we are reducing our need for fossil fuels, because we just can't keep consuming our way out of this problem, and so it comes down to doing the really basic things really well. That will create a healthy home.

Ludwina Dautovic: 18:23

So let's talk about the environmental, social and governance reporting standard for housing. When do you think that this will become a standard benchmark in the housing industry?

Antony Dimase: 18:32

Well, it's an area that I'm interested in. I can't say I can speak with any great authority about it, but what I am understanding is there are predictions that there will be subsidies given to homeowners in the not too distant future to make their houses more efficient, and part of making the houses more efficient will be reporting back to whoever is providing those subsidies. What energy efficiencies have been calculated, have been put into place. So, for instance, if you do put solar energy and money is contributed towards that, then, be it the subsidy, whoever gave the subsidy, or if there's a bank that's given a green loan, they will actually want to see how those changes have actually reduced carbon emissions. So I think we'll see something like that emerge over the next four or five years as we move to a more low energy economy. We've committed to a 43% reduction by 2030 and 100% reduction by 2050. So these are big changes that are going to occur in the way we live.

Ludwina Dautovic: 19:41

Can you tell me a bit more about that green loan? I haven't heard that before.

Antony Dimase: 19:45

Well, it's something that I'm investigating, but my understanding is that there are. I'm not going to speak with great authority about this because I don't know enough about it, but my understanding is that places like Bank Australia and other banks will offer green loans to members of the community or to businesses to put into place more efficient features into their buildings, be it commercial or residential. But one of the features of those green loans is that they definitely want carbon emissions to be part of that. It has to be reported back to the bank and then the bank provides that data to whoever their lenders are, to wherever they're getting their money, so that they can actually report those reductions in emissions to wherever they get their money from, from overseas. So it's something that I'm investigating because I think it's a really big change that's going to occur because we're effectively trading on the efficiency of buildings. That's what I'm understanding.

Ludwina Dautovic: 20:47

So it's basically something to look into in regards to subsidies or benefits that are available to landlords. How would they find out about that? Where would they get that kind of information from?

Antony Dimase: 21:00

Well, a group that I've been working with is a group called Evatat and they're looking into having like a logbook kind of system where you put into place certain efficiencies and then you're able to kind of create a logbook of all the changes that you're making within your building to a future homeowner, to a future purchaser and to yourselves.

Antony Dimase: 21:22

And my understanding that's early days yet, but my understanding is that the banks are quite interested in this kind of logbook approach to the energy efficiencies of dwelling. So they're actually looking at this model as a way of making sure that the buildings that they're giving loans to are actually efficient. Because if you think about it, the banks have got a vested interest in homeowners not having to pay huge amounts of money for their energy consumption, because it affects the ability for that homeowner to repay the mortgage. So increasingly as we go to a more high interest rate sort of scenario and then the cost of energy is actually also increasing, then those two things are not working very well for the person who's actually having to pay for all this. So having an energy efficient house means that that occupant is more likely to meet their repayments.

Ludwina Dautovic: 22:14

That's a great concept. It almost sounds like some form of a directory as well, where people can list what they've done on their home and have that logbook, kind of like a car. When you buy a car, you've actually got a technical log of what you've done to maintain the car. That's what you're talking about here, isn't it? Absolutely yeah.

Antony Dimase: 22:34

And, as I say, it's a group called Evatat. They're a relatively new player in this area, but they're looking at promoting this idea that you make changes to your building, let's say you put insulation in, and then you can actually record that and then add on this logbook so you have a kind of visual dashboard and you can see what the benefits have been for doing that and then you sort of that kind of gives yourself a little bit of encouragement to keep going down this track. So it's kind of a bit techie. It's a bit, you know, for people who are really interested in this kind of thing, and you know they've also tried to build a community of people that are engaged in this sort of thing. So there's learnings from other people and seminars and so on and so forth. So it's a way of kind of creating a movement across a number of different communities and people who are interested in sustainability and energy efficiency, and so there's a learning from each other, which I really like.

Ludwina Dautovic: 23:29

That sounds great. I'd like to get in touch with them actually, well, for the listeners.

Antony Dimase: 23:34

The group's name is Evitat, e-v-i-t-a-t, and yeah, they're sort of an emerging group that are really looking at the retrofitting of existing spaces, be it housing and also commercial, to make the houses more energy efficient. So, you know, as an architect, for instance, you know I might design one building that might be, you know, energy efficient and that's great, but we all know that there's a whole lot of buildings out there that are really energy inefficient, that we need to contend with, and I think that's going to be the challenge over the next five to 10 years.

Ludwina Dautovic: 24:08

And with sustainability, it's not just about the efficiency of running a home or the aesthetics of it or the design. It's also about affordability, and I know that it's an area that you're also really passionate about, as you know that we've got so much wasted space in all of these large rooms that we're accessing, you know, to help homeowners reduce their multiple interest rate hikes, they can rent out this bare route to a verified housemaid, and we've got lots of people in the rental market who are trying to find accessible and affordable housing. So that holds to sustainability. Pride of it is, you know, grown up to the core of what we do. What are some of the challenges that you're seeing in terms of the affordability of housing?

Antony Dimase: 24:48

Well, again, it's really. I guess the housing market is really market driven, so there's a whole lot of things that are sort of feeding against each other. So we've gone through a substantial change in the last, let's say, 12 months, 18 months. Whatever you want to talk about, you know COVID really affected the housing industry, really affected the building industry. We saw a number of liquidations, a lot of companies going into receivership, which is really unfortunate. You know large players Porter Davis and other groups, the supply chains of materials have been choked. People talk about the Ukraine war being the reason for that.

Antony Dimase: 25:28

I don't know, but I do know that you know, if you specify a material that's coming from Europe, you can expect a 16 week wait is not unheard of. Quite often you don't know when the material is. You know product is going to arrive. Interest rates have been increasing and so the cost of building has, you know, jumped very significantly. So it's not a good time to be building, truth be known, at the moment, and it's sort of laid bare some of the problems, I think, that exist within the industry, the way that the industry works, and I think consumers are rightly concerned and I guess it's leading to a downturn in construction activity. So all of these things are making affordability just that much more difficult.

Antony Dimase: 26:16

I do think that during the COVID period a lot of money was put into the building economy, into the, you know the home loan subsidies for people who are building houses, and governments were putting a lot of money into schools and other projects to basically keep the economy going. So it was essentially kind of like a stimulus package across you know a variety of different areas and I suspect what's happened is that it's kind of overheated the market and that also contributed to this current downturn. So it's not good, I guess, to say the very least, that you know, house prices have jumped, the cost of construction has jumped and the level of certainty that we once would have had in the construction industry is less, less. So I don't know whether I've answered your question, but it's not a great time.

Ludwina Dautovic: 27:07

I guess, yeah, and people who'd never would have seen themselves as being renters are now becoming renters, and people are renting for a longer period of time as well, and I keep hearing that the only way to solve this is to build more housing. But the building industry is in the state of disarray, as you said, and even then if they build, it's like four or five years before it's built. It just seems to be this ongoing problem that's in this continual circle that needs to stop at some point, and one of the things that we talk a lot about is that it's our, I guess, a civic duty, in a way, of individuals in the country who can look at what is it that we can do on a grassroots level to help curb the negative impact of this, and it's very much what we're about. But the discussion around sustainability, affordability in housing, needs to continue, because, don't know how it got here.

Ludwina Dautovic: 28:06

I've been in the housing market now, back since when the interest rates were 18%, but our mortgage was 80,000, not the kind of sizes that it is today, so there's a lot of issues there. Look, antony, we've covered a lot here in this conversation and I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge, and even from those areas that you're not an expert in, but it's just really interesting where the conversation went at points, and I think design isn't really important in terms of moving forward, and I just actually got an email announcing you on your website it's just been launched.

Antony Dimase: 28:39

Yes, that's correct. Yeah we've been very proud of the work that we've done. We've tried to make a website that's really informative to prospective clients I mean people who are generally interested in architecture. So by all means I hope people visit it. Wwwdemasearchitectscomau. As I say, we put a lot of effort and energy into it to sort of try and reflect the kind of values that we aspire to.

Ludwina Dautovic: 29:03

And that's Demase D-I-M-A-S-E. And the link to that will also be in the show notes on therimexchangecom on our blog. Now how else can people get in touch with you, anthony?

Antony Dimase: 29:15

Well, they're welcome to call me. They're welcome to call our phone, 9482-514, that's a Melbourne number. They're welcome to call me on my mobile, 0419-505-608. Always happy to have a chat and see where I can contribute meaningfully. I just would like to say, before you do close, what I think you guys are doing is fantastic. You know it is.

Antony Dimase: 29:38

I think one of the ways that we can meet the challenges of our time is through that small scale intervention that you're doing. I know it's not small scale, but that sort of community-based sort of initiative is what can I do? How can we help? You know, I've got a spare room. I can rent that out. There's an opportunity over here. Let's look at that. I think more and more that's where I see the future of how we meet the challenges of what we're facing today, because we can lend a hand to people who are in need and we can find ways to solve this problem. We don't need to necessarily look to governments or corporations or banks to actually solve the problems. We've actually got everything that we need to be able to solve these problems. So I just want to congratulate you on what your initiative is doing, because I think it's really, you know, working in the right way.

Ludwina Dautovic: 30:25

Well, thank you very much, Anthony. That's just such a lovely thing to say and a wonderful note to end this incredible conversation. So thank you very much for your time and we look forward to getting you back on the show in the future.

Antony Dimase: 30:38

Thanks a lot, really appreciate it.

Ludwina Dautovic: 30:39

OK, bye for now. Thanks for listening. If you're looking for your next rent tool, head over to the Room Exchange, australia's first verified house sharing platform. Our profiles make it easy to match you based on personality, values and lifestyle, and you can choose to rent or offset your rent, saving you time and money. To find out more, go to theroomexchangecom. You can connect with us across our social media platforms at theroomexchange, or email admin at theroomexchangecom.