Solutions for Housing in Regional Australia with Laura Shooter

Housing Trends & Affordability Challenges:
Dive into a captivating exploration of the regional housing market with Laura Shooter, Managing Director at SJ Shooter Real Estate in Dubbo. This episode promises enlightening insights into the intricacies of the rental market, housing value trends, and the pressing matter of affordability issues faced by many.

Navigating the Housing Shortage:
Discover the role of innovative initiatives, such as The Room Xchange, in addressing the housing crunch. Laura, deeply connected to the heart of Dubbo, shares the potential economic and tourism benefits that come from optimising current housing capacities.

Impact of the Pandemic & Risk-Taking:
How has the pandemic reshaped the housing landscape? Join us for a riveting discussion on altered risk-taking behaviors and their implications for the market.

Engage with Us!
Don't miss out on this enlightening journey through the regional housing market and the groundbreaking changes in the rental space. Subscribe, share, and leave us a review!

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Transcript

Laura Shooter: 0:00

The people with the means and resources can and will solve their own problems, and it means that then it's vulnerable people that are left with higher prices, less availability, and none of us are really that many unforeseen things happening away from staring down the barrel of homelessness.

Ludwina Dautovic: 0:21

Welcome to the Room Exchange podcast helping you rent better. In this podcast, we're having conversations with industry leaders in the rental market, along with everyday renters, sharing fascinating stories, insights and tips to help you rent better. Hello and welcome to the Room Exchange podcast. I'm Ludwina Dautovicand today wina absolute pleasure of talking to Laura Shooter, managing director at SJ Shooter Real Estate in Dubbo. She's also a pretty good mate of mine, so this is going to be a great conversation. Today, as a 7th generation Dubbo local, she's seen how central housing is essential to our community. Now it's her mission to align the online and real world experience of Dubbo in a worthy representation of her home city. Welcome to the show, laura.

Laura Shooter: 1:10

Thank you so much for having me, lidwena, I'm really excited.

Ludwina Dautovic: 1:13

Now you and I started getting acquainted. I think, how long ago was it? Maybe a year ago?

Laura Shooter: 1:17

No, it's only a few months ago. I must have been in like February, march, and I rang you to talk about the Room Exchange, but we talked about everything else.

Ludwina Dautovic: 1:25

Oh, that's right. I remember that phone conversation. Yes, I think you were about to do a speaking gig or something. I can't believe it was this year. That's crazy. I feel like I've known you for ages.

Laura Shooter: 1:35

Same yeah, we got to meet each other in real life at PropTech Awards Night Absolutely so that was fantastic.

Ludwina Dautovic: 1:43

I know I have to give myself a plug here. The Room Exchange won the award for most innovative scale up for environment social sustainability, which I think is a pertinent topic for today, because really the whole topic of housing and the challenges that's happening in regional it's a pretty big topic, isn't it?

Laura Shooter: 2:00

It's massive.

Ludwina Dautovic: 2:00

Yes, look, before we get into that, how about you introduce yourself and tell me what you do and why you do it?

Laura Shooter: 2:07

So Laura Shooter and I run SJ Shooter Real Estate here in Dubbo together with my husband, Samuel. The reason I do that? I really see real estate as essential community infrastructure and I think there's such a natural connection between real estate and the community and I love thinking about how to bring things together so it's good for people, good for our city and good for the industry as well.

Ludwina Dautovic: 2:31

Yeah, that's actually a really good point, because when we think about housing in Australia, I think majority of people have thought about it as an investment, not really as one of the most basic, essential needs that everybody requires, right.

Laura Shooter: 2:45

Yeah, I think so. I think we can get a little bit lost in the transactional aspects of it, but it is so fundamental and everyone needs someone to live. Yeah, absolutely. And then when?

Ludwina Dautovic: 2:56

I think about renting in the housing market and the fact that that is actually a service that someone's providing us. I don't think that we consider that enough as well, so maybe we can dig into that a little bit today too. But why don't you tell me about how you see housing in regional areas, and particularly in Dubbo?

Laura Shooter: 3:16

Yeah. So I guess the housing market, from a sales perspective, has followed the same trends that we've been seeing nationally and we've got a little bit of a shift happening now. So there's a little bit less demand, but there's still plenty of people around. It's just not as crazy as it was. So when you look at the data and the trends, it shows that it has come back just slightly. The values have started to drop back a little bit, but what we've seen historically in Dubbo and this is reflected in a lot of the regions is it's never tanked, it's never crashed. We don't have a boom and bust cycle. It just has a little exhale and then continues on its upward trajectory.

Laura Shooter: 3:54

In rentals it's quite interesting. We hear a lot of commentary around investors selling out, and certainly I'm sure that is what's been going on in the cities. But here what we've seen in this last quarter there was actually an extra 130 bonds held by rental bonds, so that's telling us there's been an increase in rental accommodation available here and what we're seeing on the ground is people have been kind of capped out affordability wise, so we do have some properties that have been sitting a little longer. We've seen values overall go up slightly. One bedroom prices came down ever so slightly in the last data, so I think it's showing there is a capacity for that market correction to be there, and that's sort of what we're starting to experience now.

Ludwina Dautovic: 4:41

I'm hearing, typically in regional areas, that rental accommodation is a massive issue. Can you tell me how that's been reflected in Dubbo? Because particularly one of the major concerns that I have is businesses and just the local economic factors in regional areas are really being hit hard, because if they can't house workers, if they can't house people who are coming in to develop and all the various different things that are occurring in regional areas, then that's creating a massive knock on effect overall. So what are your thoughts on that?

Laura Shooter: 5:12

Yeah, it's been really an interesting one to watch. So right at this moment, I'd say it's probably some of the best time to rent in Dubbo over the last couple of years. So there is a bit more stock on and slightly less demand. But what we're finding is the applicants not necessarily being able to afford the rent, so they're not getting a look in due to just affordability issues. And then what was happening when it was tighter is that we've got all these companies needing to bring workers to town.

Laura Shooter: 5:43

Like Dubbo is full of really diverse opportunities for people, so there's all kinds of different positions and businesses were unable to attract the right talent Because they weren't able to get a house. And so then we had these companies. They would go and they rent a property and take that rental accommodation off the market so that they could put their workers in there, but of course then that's now one less property on the market. They're not necessarily housing workers in there all the time. They've just got them there so that they can bring that talent in when it comes up Like we're in a talent shortage as well as a housing shortage. So they were doing that to solve their own problems and this is what was happening. So the people with the means and resources can and will solve their own problems, and it means that then it's vulnerable people that are left with higher prices, less availability, and they're the ones who are missing out, and none of us are really that many unforeseen things happening away from staring down the barrel of homelessness.

Ludwina Dautovic: 6:45

Gee, is that such a strong statement? I've been hearing as well that middle class whatever that means these days, only two paychecks away permit themselves With all of the interest rates. It's sort of been occurring. It's interesting to actually see the effect that that's happening at the room exchange, because this is the first time that we've actually seen just as many homeowners signing up as we are renters, and before it used to be about 25% homeowners and 75% renters announced 50-50. And I'd even go as far as to say some weeks it can actually even be more. So homeowners are actually filling the pinch with the multiple interest rate hikes and looking at ways to actually get that additional income in.

Laura Shooter: 7:24

That's right, and so we hear a lot about the effect on renters and it is really important and we absolutely need to look at how we're making the renting experience better. However, owners have experienced exponentially more increases in their expenses. So, whether they're an owner-occupier or whether they are, actually, they have an investment property and they're supplying rental accommodation for someone else. Their increase in expenses is gone beyond what tenants have experienced in the last little while, and that's creating this risk of investors leaving the market and, as I said before, the data shows that that's not what's happened here, and I guess we have a much lower median price in Dubbo, so it is possible that investors might take their money out of a more expensive market and put it somewhere like Dubbo, but there's a real risk that we're going to lose a lot more and it's already happening. The data shows that we're reducing that rental pool further and further, but meanwhile, like your solution, the room exchange.

Laura Shooter: 8:22

This is why I think, when I saw it and I started talking about it because I've been asked to comment on the housing shortage in different forums for the last little while, because it's something that I've been looking ahead and going like I know this is going to get worse before it gets better. And even now, when I'm saying it's not that bad right now, looking ahead I know it's going to get worse before it gets better. You're the first one that's doing something that's an actual solution that we can deploy today. And this is the thing supply. We have a supply issue. Supply takes time to fix. Meanwhile, we're bringing in migration at rates we've not seen in a really long time. Like Houston, we have a problem and the room exchange is actually tying up these two problems into a solution. So you know, we've got homeowners feeling the pinch, we've got people who need somewhere to stay, and that comes together in finding something that both of them need.

Ludwina Dautovic: 9:12

Yeah, it's interesting and for those who are listening that have not heard about the room exchange before, you might be interested to know that there are over 13 million unused bare bedrooms in 10 million homes across Australia, which is existing housing stock. It's insane, I know. When you look at it, it's just like how did that happen? Hmm, it happened, and those spare bedrooms laying dormant in a lot of these homes that we're talking about it was struggling with a multiple interest rate hikes and they don't see themselves as Kind of like how shearers or people who might get a flatmate, so to speak. They're looking for something more sophisticated and that's where our platform comes in, because we have mandatory vacation profile matching and also rental options and Premium, so it's to help them to negotiate their arrangements.

Ludwina Dautovic: 9:57

So, for anyone listening who wants to know more about that, that's what we do, and what Laura was talking about is like, when we're looking at solutions, what is available right now, and so you know the government's talking about building. That's great. It's gonna take about five years to build some of that housing that's required. Yeah, but with a mess that the building industry is in at the moment and the long delays that are occurring, you know, like.

Laura Shooter: 10:20

I don't even think they're gonna be putting a dint in them in what's required exactly and that's what worries me what happens to everybody who doesn't have the privilege and the resources to really go ahead and Make those things happen for themselves, by saying they'll pay extra, by using their business to secure rental accommodation or short-term Accommodation? So this is everybody's problem. Like, what does increased homelessness actually look like in your city? Like I definitely have noticed Even here in the last little while, some things that had previously been hidden are getting a bit more visible and I just think, like Some people think, oh, it won't affect me, you know, I might be able to make some changes, I won't go on that overseas holiday or whatever. But really it affects everybody. When you go downtown and there's people around that haven't been able to, you know, that are sleeping rough or having a hard time and I know the room exchange isn't a solution for homelessness Like what you can do is help people who ordinarily wouldn't be in that position to stay far away from that.

Ludwina Dautovic: 11:27

Yeah, absolutely so. We look at it like a prevention. Yeah, to that, right at the point where somebody is in trouble or They've just lost their job or they're needing to leave their current premises and they have to find somewhere else and they can't, that's a great point to actually then come and look at the room exchange because one people do actually fall into homelessness. Unfortunately, there's a lot of other challenges that become involved and it's required some social welfare support there and our homeowners aren't there to actually support People in that way. So thanks for clarifying that. Let's move on a little bit now.

Ludwina Dautovic: 11:57

I'd like to talk about Housing in terms of the lost opportunity cost for regional areas, because I know that there's been quite a few conversations. One occurred yesterday from a big regional area in Victoria won't say just yet, but you know they're looking at finding Accommodation solutions within the health industry down there because they're wanting to get, you know, doctors and nurses and things that come to the, so people to come to the area, but they can't actually find accommodation for them. There's a lot of lost opportunity costs like that that are occurring because they can't find housing for like people. So let's talk about some of those lost opportunity costs we had a really good conversation about this the other day and there's a number of them that I just don't think that regional areas are thinking about, and these are areas that we're looking at finding solutions for Regional towns to actually help solve this problem. So why don't you rattle off a few that come to mind for you?

Laura Shooter: 12:46

Yeah for sure. And this is the thing so like being able to unlock that latent capacity that's already there in the houses that already exist. Yeah, you can really capitalize on opportunities. So the film industry is a big one that they'll come to an area for a short period of time and well shortish it could be a few months and they need to find that extra accommodation and that brings all kinds of opportunities to a regional city like Dubbo or like other regional areas, ongoing beyond the life of the film. It can really add to the economy and to the tourism and all those things. So film industry is a big one.

Laura Shooter: 13:23

There's this opportunity cost if we can't figure this out as regions sporting events, so the ability to have large sporting events. It might just be for a weekend or a week that you have all these extra families. They're going to book out all the accommodation, but really there'd be so many people who'd be happy to have someone come along and stay in their house short term. You know what they're there for. It feels less risky Like there'd be so many people and it puts a few dollars in your back pocket. Fantastic Again, problems tied neatly up into a solution, lots and music festivals. I know the parks Elvis Festival, their local real estate agency has done some amazing work helping unlock capacity, but your solution could help extend that to other regional cities who might not have someone who could put their hand up and do that Construction industry.

Laura Shooter: 14:09

So these projects we know we've got a lot of projects coming to town. There's been a lot of discussions about how to accommodate all these workers on all these different projects. We're a renewable energy zone here, so huge solar and wind projects going in through the region as well as other energy related projects. So massive workforce that needs accommodating and like we need things now. Even if they are going to build their own things, that's still going to take time. So we've got that as well. So, yeah, labor hire, short term projects and then, yeah, these large companies. So we've got a number of quite large companies here, like Fletcher's, the Avertwa, and we've got Mars Construction. All these companies need to bring big workforces in and being able to accommodate them has been like one of the challenges they're facing being able to get the workers to do the job they need to do.

Ludwina Dautovic: 15:00

Yeah, one of the ideas that we've tossed around, interestingly, since our initial discussion, laura. It has actually expanded into some other conversations, which I'll share more specifically about with you on the download another time. But when the RIM exchange looks at any kind of solution like this that we can solve, one of our core values is how can we do it without removing further properties from the rental pool, because we don't want houses to just be available for short term stays and then they remain empty for a good portion of the year. That's against our company values. So one of the models that we have begun to develop is what would have typically been called years ago, the concept of billeting. So when you were talking about you know save there was a family sporting event that was coming to town, like maybe a finals football event or sporting event or something like that.

Ludwina Dautovic: 15:50

I remember as a kid, you know, when we were involved in netball. We'd get billeted out or very differently set up back then and it'd be like, hey, who's got a room in the house? They stick their hand up, yet you'll do, and you'd go and stay there with your family. This would be much more organised, but having the local community realise that if they were to just open up their home, they could be putting a tent in the backyard. Maybe a couple of kids will top and tail in a bed, or you know, it doesn't have to be a hotel.

Ludwina Dautovic: 16:16

Ready, tight, short stay set up, it's just look. If you need somewhere that's a bit cheaper, this is our price for three or four days. Come and stay and the room exchange can build a micro version of what it is that our main platform is and facilitate that for the local area. Then that is going to bring a lot more of these opportunities to the local towns and also get the local people involved. And I grew up in a little country town called Howlong, just outside of Aubrey, so I know what community people are like and my mum had a revolving front door. It was crazy Like we knew everyone in town and when anyone came to town they did somewhere to stay. You'd stick your hand up and that's just the nature of country living, yeah.

Laura Shooter: 16:54

Yeah, I think these things are good for us.

Laura Shooter: 16:56

It can seem a little uncomfortable or unfamiliar to go and stay with people you don't know and I think, particularly you know just recently I don't know if it's the pandemic or other factors we're so scared of each other and I think so often there's so much joy to be found in actually taking a risk on each other and, yeah, it can really add to both people's life to kind of be a bit vulnerable, have those connections, and this is one of the things I remember we talked about in my first chat. I'm like how do you help people see the best in each other and do you have kind of these issues? I think we're also afraid of the worst case scenario and we're all afraid of kind of throwing our hat in the ring going. Yes, I can be part of the solution because we're scared of each other and you've not experienced this and I was surprised because you've facilitated a lot of these things. But what you're really seeing is it is it's adding to people. It's not kind of this as risky as it sounds, I guess.

Ludwina Dautovic: 17:53

One of the things that I do a few times a year is going to be a housemate in someone's home, so I can know exactly what it feels like and of course, my circumstance might be a little different because of who I am. But the last time I did it was in January this year, for three weeks and it was in a really beautiful, a mud brick house down in New Warburton and it was just amazing With a woman. She was single mother with a child and it was just okay. I've got to kind of get the vibe of the house. How can I contribute, establishing what the rules are around, how I interacted with a daughter. All of that happened very quickly.

Ludwina Dautovic: 18:27

And it's interesting when you go and you put yourself in someone else's place where they're open like that, and they're saying, yeah, well, yeah, come and stay, it's three weeks, come and have a good time here, and you can adapt for a very short period of time. But then you find that very quickly you're not falling into each other's groove anyway, and I don't know about you, but I've been married 30 years and you get very, very used to how you live in your own house and how you already become around the person that you live most with. It's actually really nice to what's the word. I become more consciously aware of myself. I think it's a word when I'm in somebody else's place.

Laura Shooter: 19:00

Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, it does make sense. That's what I mean. I think it's good for us to have these experiences and to be exposed to different people, different ways of living, and, yeah, I think it's only good.

Ludwina Dautovic: 19:14

Yeah, no, I do too. The benefit that it can bring to local communities is it's very strong, it's very positive. And you know, I have to say too, I believe that the majority of people in the world are good people and, having said that, it's still important to set up a structure or a system or process to provide that confidence to people. And so, when we talk about the mandatory verification, when somebody registers on our platform their name and the date of birth they register with, if it's not correct, when they do the verification process which is inbuilt in our system, if it doesn't match exactly what they registered with, they won't pass, which means they can't connect with anyone. So if you're a homeowner and you're wondering, well, how do you know that person is who they say they are, you have to go through that process and they have to go through that process to be able to connect with each other. And that has been like a natural filtering process, because people with ill intention or who have got something to hide will not complete our process.

Laura Shooter: 20:09

And that's fine.

Ludwina Dautovic: 20:10

You know, that's absolutely fine with us. Yeah, yeah, you're doing us a favour. We've got a lot of collaboration. We've not had one complaint. The process works.

Laura Shooter: 20:18

That's right. I just think that's remarkable, yeah.

Ludwina Dautovic: 20:21

Thank you. We're the first and only Veric Bighthouse sharing platform in the country. We've made that a rule from the get-go and I'm really glad that we have. The other part is the profile matching. You can look at that whether you're looking at some for someone to come into your home now meet to long-term, or if you're listening in a regional area and you want to have a conversation with us about how we can possibly help you not miss out on these opportunity costs that we mentioned. But we can actually establish a setup that actually suits that model for you. We're looking at a number of different commercial models and white label solutions for organizations and businesses in regional areas. You are in Melbourne at the moment, I believe Back in Dubbo. Oh, you're back in Dubbo. You were in Melbourne, yeah.

Laura Shooter: 21:02

But I was there a couple of days ago.

Ludwina Dautovic: 21:04

At the Rise Conference. At the Rise Conference, yeah, tell us about that.

Laura Shooter: 21:09

Yeah, look, it was an incredibly impactful conference. The Rise Initiative Champions Mental Wellness in the real estate industry. It's a one-day conference. They brought in people from all different backgrounds, all different walks of life. They shared really vulnerable stories. Yeah, I think there are about 6,700 people there in the auditorium and having this experience together, it was really impactful. I think a lot of people were in tears. Nazir Sabani, the streets barber, spoke about his journey through addiction to then being in service and living on purpose. He gives haircuts to homeless people to help them reconnect with their feeling human again. Yeah, really just incredible story, stories like that. I could mention all the speakers, but it was really cool. Actually, samuel and I got to speak as well. We talked about a panel called couples therapy and how we make it work. We've been married for 16 years and working together for about eight Just to share what that's been like.

Ludwina Dautovic: 22:12

Yeah, that's an interesting one. Do you both work in the same environment or different locations?

Laura Shooter: 22:18

Same. I think the business started from our home. When we talk about that separation from work, that hasn't really been the experience for us. I don't think that's all bad either. I think the shared context is added to it. There's a lot we understand just naturally, just because we're working together.

Ludwina Dautovic: 22:37

Yeah, my husband and I have been working together for about eight years. When I say together, not in the same business, he's not involved in the room exchange and I'm not involved in Atlas Electrical, but his office is right behind me in our house, right? Yeah, it's interesting. You've got to put up some very clear boundaries, but I've been working from home for 29 years, so I felt like a space invader.

Laura Shooter: 22:57

Yeah, right, that would have been strange.

Ludwina Dautovic: 22:59

Yeah, it was really interesting. Before we wrap up, I'm heading up your way. I am going to be doing a road trip from Melbourne up to Brisbane. I'm going inland first. I'm going to stop at a bunch of regional towns along the way Shepperton, albury, hopefully Dubbo I think there's one before Dubbo, I can't remember. I'm in Tuomba and then get up to Brisbane. Did I name them in roughly the right order? I think I did Something like that.

Laura Shooter: 23:24

Maybe not Tuomba's after Dubbo, but….

Ludwina Dautovic: 23:26

Yeah, after Dubbo. Yeah, just before Brisbane. Yeah, but heading out that way. But I'll be mentioning where they are. I'll come and crash at your place for a few days.

Laura Shooter: 23:34

Yeah, you're most welcome in the spare room.

Ludwina Dautovic: 23:36

Yeah, absolutely Looking forward to it and looking forward to having a look around Dubbo as well. Hopefully we can also help solve some of the housing issues up there with the room exchange. Laura, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been an absolute pleasure. This is the first time we've actually done a video version of our podcast. I'm usually an audio podcast, so I wanted to get a few video clips of this one with you. So thank you very much.

Ludwina Dautovic: 23:58

Thank you If you are listening and you want to watch the video. You'll be able to see it on our YouTube channel as well at the room exchange. Laura, how can people find out more about you?

Laura Shooter: 24:07

LinkedIn's probably where I'm most active. Just Laura Shudder. Our business, SJ Shudder Real Estate, is on Facebook and Instagram. Yeah, they're probably the best ways.

Ludwina Dautovic: 24:17

Fantastic. We'll have those links on the show notes page as well, but thank you so much. We'll speak to you again and thank you my pleasure.

Laura Shooter: 24:24

Thank you, ladwina, bye, bye-bye.

Ludwina Dautovic: 24:26

Thanks for listening. If you're looking for your next rental, head over to the Room Exchange, australia's first verified house sharing platform. Our profiles make it easy to match you based on personality, values and lifestyle, and you can choose to rent or offset your rent, saving you time and money. To find out more, go to theroomexchangecom. You can connect with us across our social media platforms at theroomexchangecom.